Thursday, May 1, 2008

Rod Johnson has an SMD moment

JRod is in the house! Matt Asay linked to my post on Spring Source earlier today echoing the sentiment of "how is this an application server?" He thereby attracted the wrath of the Rod.


Matt: I just don't understand why it's an application server. I'm probably too ignorant to appreciate the applicability of the nomenclature, but to me it doesn't fit.

Rod: Indeed, you do not understand. It is an application server because it provides a complete runtime environment that is an alternative to existing application server products. Spring is a part of it. It's sad to see you quoting the bitter FUD of Marc Fleury. He also doesn't understand the technology enough at this point to comment; he clearly has a vested interest in attacking SpringSource; and he's irrelevant to the future of the industry. Rgds Rod


Rod, I know you have a hard-on for JBoss, but keep your sprocket in your pocket. Funny how somebody with the personality of a cold cucumber sandwich suddenly finds his picante! Later in the thread the man lashes out at a Spring user for saying "this is not an app-server, why should I pay you for Spring?"

You haven't been in OSS any time at all if you haven't felt the urge to lash out at a customer, er user who refuses to pay his protection money, and that's the point. Open Source is a bitch. I sympathize. At JBoss, we called this the SMD moment.

Rod is wrong on a couple of things: I DO understand the technology enough to call it out for what it is "an emperor has no clothes" attempt to monetize his ISV base. I will respectfully point out that all this mumbo jumbo about modularity being a "quantum leap to the next generation" is just bullshit. We were peddling modular application servers with JBoss and its JMX base back in 2000, except we had real run-time substance behind it. This is almost 10 years old. We are looking at Tomcat and Hibernate (both from JBoss developers) with Spring, a modular kernel and a little bit of marketing bullshit sauce on top. What is new is the licensing gimmick. Licensing schmicensing. Your users are not dumb, they see right through this flat footed license change, don't get mad and patronize them when they call you out.

He got one thing right, though. I am becoming irrelevant to the industry. I have no troops to command any longer, I just write this blog. On the other hand, I did have the good taste to become irrelevant AFTER I exited the industry.

24 comments:

Anonymous said...

If all of this is old news, then show me an application server to which I can deploy my app as an OSGi bundle. It's certainly not possible with JBoss, even though JBoss AS5 uses OSGi for modularization *internally* (just like WSAS, WLAS, GF, etc.).

Marcf said...

Who cares. JBoss used JMX to do just that with SARs in 2000. I was excited as a fly on shit talking to the press about modularity and how we were targeting monolythic application servers and what a leap in innovation it was. Some will argue that OSGi isn't even the right user API, which is why Spring has to go to great length to make is semi-consumable. Using a different API to do something that has been around for a decade isn't news. There is no news here but the license change.

Tobias said...

Are they shipping Euquinox with this platform?
If so, isn't Equinox EPL software? How can that be repackaged as GPL? Check the GPL FAQ.

Good thing, OSGi is not an important part of this and can be left out.

Marcf said...

Yeah someone pointed out that problem to me. It is kind of embarrassing really, means they are flying by the seat of their pants, which is to be expected.

There are other implementations of OSGi besides eclipse, there is JBoss MC :) This way they can get Tomcat, Hibernate, JBossMC, call it Spring and be done with this bullshit.

Anonymous said...

@anonymous

The app server to which you can deploy your apps as an OSGi bundle is BEA WebLogic Event Server. It is also based on OSGi (Equinox) and Spring-DM (though the servlet engine is Jetty). I hope BEA will extend their micro-Service Architecture (OSGi-based) and expose it in regular WebLogic Server. I am sure most of the established app servers will do the same in a 3-6 months timeframe. Then the advantage of Spring App Server will dissapear. As somebody wrote on TSS: it will be again like comparing Tomcat to WebLogic...

Anonymous said...

Sorry for the ignorance, what's SMD?

Marcf said...

It is an inside joke.

One night, I am in London, this is 2002? It is 3AM I am drunk after a dinner with the second EU training. I come to my room, there is a message from my wife, she informs me that she is pregnant with twins. Then I read my email.

This guy, called Trawick James, is complaining that we are charging $10 for our documentation! $10 freaking dollars!!!! He worked at Nielsen Media Research so clearly could afford BEA yet was there lecturing us about how this "was not open source and we were going to fail".

The only response I could muster that late at night was:

"Mr Trawick James,
Suck my d*ck,
marcf"

Of course, it made the rounds, first by the competition, which spread this saying "this is what you get for free!" I woke up the next morning thinking "ooops". Then it became an inside joke at JBoss used to describe that moment where you reach the point where you are really really tired of the "free" in free software. It really gets to you. Our sales force would reach these moments after an initial period of euphoria. I remember this guy writing "when I read "there are synergies between our companies" I know they don't want to pay. Today someone talked about "extreme synergies" I knew it was time to run". Which was a PG13 version of the SMD moment for sales guys.

Dhanji R. Prasanna said...

Maybe we should package Guice + Warp under GPL and start selling massive support contracts for it.

We had to innovate all kinds of cool shit to get Hibernate sessions running inside Guice. It's a new technology you have never heard of: I call it the ThreadLocal.

Dhanji. =P

Marcf said...

Thread Local variables are a great way to pass implicit associations. We used to use them everywhere in JBoss to pass information under the API radar. You should GPL your threadlocal variables and sell it for billions!

Anonymous said...

Mark
I actually think you feel threatened. In the past few years JBoss has been talking a lot about standalone JBoss MC - a platform which was supposed to address development and deployment of POJO based systems without dependency on JBoss API while maintaining component architecture to assemble other platforms (e.g. JEE). Generally I'd say not a bad idea. . . You already had almost that with current JMX Micro container and SAR based services. All you needed to do is achieve non-invacivenes.
However, since JBoss didn't have non-invasive and configurable POJO based application framework you had to start working on your own and with JBoss's complex of superiority you could not possibly use somebody else's. . . As for the runtime core, OSGi was also not considered, but now, since you can no longer deny its importance you are working on providing modules to address OSGi class loading model and integration. But still, you decided not to take on any of the existing OSGi implementations for such core, motivating JBoss's decision as "The current OSGi service registry lacks the features we need. . ." - understood. And if you were to commit to one ". . . it would probably take the same amount of effort, if not more, to put everything together . . ." (see JBoss MC interview). - Well I guess it is nice to know that Spring has better engineers, because they did just that and they did it faster then it takes JBoss to release version 5 which was promised Q2 2006 . . . (I still have the slides. . .). They also did it based on standard (OSGi) that actually makes sense while also taking existing implementation (Equinox), while JBoss MC as proprietary as it gets. . . so who is the hypocrite here?

So, what you really tried to do looks ironically similar to what Spring has actually done and basically beat you to the punch, and now with fully featured run-time environment, completely overtaken the lead role in terms of Enterprise Java innovation. And all you left with is being as colorful in your attitude and language as you've always been. And God bless you Mark, by being so colorful you've contributed to more loss business for JBoss then any competitor could ever dream off, so please remain the way you are and don't change a thing.


Casual Blogger
JBoss certified JEMS Master Architect and Instructor - who no longer cares

Marcf said...

Anonymous,

You must mistake me with someone STILL involved with Red Hat. I left a few years ago with a lot more than "my attitude". It is funny how so many people are still upset about it all.

You are right that AS5 is taking longer than it should have.

Please remember that Tomcat, Hibernate are JBoss products. The packaging in OSGi is irrelevant and this is only a license change play. THEY think you are a sucker.

alesj said...

@Casual Blogger

"you could not possibly use somebody else's"

We would have used somebody else's if it did what we want it to do.

You seem to miss the idea of MC.
It's not just about POJOs, it's about any component model, any environment out there.
If you can find me any other framework/kernel that does what we do in MC, I'll change my statement.

Look at MC homepage, all its sub-projects, and let me know who does something similar.
And no, it's not Spring and their new SSAP toy. ;-)

"Well I guess it is nice to know that Spring has better engineers, because they did just that and they did it faster"

This is what you do when you don't have anything - no existing runtime env or legacy things. Then you do what you're good at, wrapping around existing solutions and spread some fud how anything else is obsolete.

OSGi is nice, but it again doesn't do all one needs when you're writting app server. You can either hack around or do things how they should be done. And we chose the 2nd option.
What we have in MC regarding dependency control, ease of use of classloaders, deployment flexibility with new deployers, VFS, ... It's so beyond any OSGi out there, it's the likes of you who don't care about to look under the hood and just complain how we don't care about anything else.
It's just the opposite, with MC we're giving out again something completely new - a very much enhanced kernel. Probably something that everybody is gonna copy like they did previous MicroKernel. ;-)

"while JBoss MC as proprietary as it gets"

Where do you see the usage of MC?
You're again missing the point.
MC is completely transparent for the user. Even when you're constructing your own runtime on top of MC, mostly you don't see MC.
Like any good framework it exposes the hooks but not internals. And we make very sure we expose just what's needed and hide the impl details behind the right modifiers.
And the separation of artifacts is as clean as it gets; spi, api and plugins. Meaning you can change the impl at any time.
Again, you don't care to look, just complain and making yourself look like a prophet on who's leading the innovation.

Bill Burke said...

@Anonymous and Ales:

Anonymous Master JBoss Architect,

I think what Ales meant to say was "SMD"!

;-)

Marcf said...

Shit bill, you have some latency on your line :)

sexy11 said...

情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣,情趣,A片,A片,情色,A片,A片,情色,A片,A片,情趣用品,A片,情趣用品,A片,情趣用品,a片,情趣用品

免費A片,美女視訊,情色交友,免費AV,色情網站,辣妹視訊,美女交友,色情影片,成人影片,成人網站,H漫,18成人,成人圖片,成人漫畫,情色網,日本A片,免費A片下載,性愛

情色文學,色情A片,A片下載,色情遊戲,色情影片,色情聊天室,情色電影,免費視訊,免費視訊聊天,免費視訊聊天室,一葉情貼圖片區,情色視訊,免費成人影片,視訊交友,視訊聊天,言情小說,愛情小說,AV片,A漫,AVDVD,情色論壇,視訊美女,AV成人網,成人交友,成人電影,成人貼圖,成人小說,成人文章,成人圖片區,成人遊戲,愛情公寓,情色貼圖,色情小說,情色小說,成人論壇

美女視訊,辣妹視訊,視訊交友網,免費視訊聊天,視訊,免費視訊,美女交友,成人交友,聊天室交友,微風論壇,微風成人,情色貼圖,色情,微風,聊天室尋夢園,交友,視訊交友,視訊聊天,視訊辣妹,一夜情

A片,A片,A片下載,做愛,成人電影,.18成人,日本A片,情色小說,情色電影,成人影城,自拍,情色論壇,成人論壇,情色貼圖,情色,免費A片,成人,成人網站,成人圖片,AV女優,成人光碟,色情,色情影片,免費A片下載,SEX,AV,色情網站,本土自拍,性愛,成人影片,情色文學,成人文章,成人圖片區,成人貼圖

Anonymous said...

本土成人貼圖站大台灣情色網台灣男人幫論壇A圖網嘟嘟成人電影網火辣春夢貼圖網情色貼圖俱樂部台灣成人電影絲襪美腿樂園18美女貼圖區柔情聊天網707網愛聊天室聯盟台北69色情貼圖區38女孩情色網台灣映像館波波成人情色網站美女成人貼圖區無碼貼圖力量色妹妹性愛貼圖區日本女優貼圖網日本美少女貼圖區亞洲風暴情色貼圖網哈啦聊天室美少女自拍貼圖辣妹成人情色網台北女孩情色網辣手貼圖情色網AV無碼女優影片男女情色寫真貼圖a片天使俱樂部萍水相逢遊戲區平水相逢遊戲區免費視訊交友90739免費視訊聊天辣妹視訊 - 影音聊天網080視訊聊天室日本美女肛交美女工廠貼圖區百分百貼圖區亞洲成人電影情色網台灣本土自拍貼圖網麻辣貼圖情色網好色客成人圖片貼圖區711成人AV貼圖區台灣美女貼圖區筱萱成人論壇咪咪情色貼圖區momokoko同學會視訊kk272視訊情色文學小站成人情色貼圖區嘟嘟成人網嘟嘟情人色網 - 貼圖區免費色情a片下載台灣情色論壇成人影片分享免費視訊聊天區微風 成人 論壇kiss文學區taiwankiss文學區

Anonymous said...

本土成人貼圖站大台灣情色網台灣男人幫論壇A圖網嘟嘟成人電影網火辣春夢貼圖網情色貼圖俱樂部台灣成人電影絲襪美腿樂園18美女貼圖區柔情聊天網707網愛聊天室聯盟台北69色情貼圖區38女孩情色網台灣映像館波波成人情色網站美女成人貼圖區無碼貼圖力量色妹妹性愛貼圖區日本女優貼圖網日本美少女貼圖區亞洲風暴情色貼圖網哈啦聊天室美少女自拍貼圖辣妹成人情色網台北女孩情色網辣手貼圖情色網AV無碼女優影片男女情色寫真貼圖a片天使俱樂部萍水相逢遊戲區平水相逢遊戲區免費視訊交友90739免費視訊聊天辣妹視訊 - 影音聊天網080視訊聊天室日本美女肛交美女工廠貼圖區百分百貼圖區亞洲成人電影情色網台灣本土自拍貼圖網麻辣貼圖情色網好色客成人圖片貼圖區711成人AV貼圖區台灣美女貼圖區筱萱成人論壇咪咪情色貼圖區momokoko同學會視訊kk272視訊情色文學小站成人情色貼圖區嘟嘟成人網嘟嘟情人色網 - 貼圖區免費色情a片下載台灣情色論壇成人影片分享免費視訊聊天區微風 成人 論壇kiss文學區taiwankiss文學區

Anonymous said...

85cc免費影城 愛情公寓正妹牆川藏第一美女 成人影片 情色交友網 美女視訊 美女視訊 視訊情人高雄網 JP成人影城 383成人影城 aa片免費a片下載 a片線上看aa片免費看 ※a片線上試看※sex520免費影片※ aa片免費看 BT成人論壇 金瓶影片交流區 自拍美女聊天室 aa片免費a片下載 SEX520免費影片 免費a片 日本美女寫真集 sex520aa免費影片 sex520aa免費影片 BT成人網 Hotsee免費視訊交友 百分百貼影片區 SEX520免費影片 免費視訊聊天室 情人視訊高雄網 星光情色討論版 正妹牆 383成人影城 線上85cc免費影城 85cc免費影城 85cc免費影城 85cc免費影城 ※免費視訊聊天室※ ※免費視訊聊天室※ 免費視訊聊天室 85cc免費影片 85cc免費影片 080苗栗人聊天室 080苗栗人聊天室 080中部人聊天室 080中部人聊天室 免費a片下載 免費a片 AA片免費看 aa片免費看 aa片免費看 aa片免費看 aa片免費看 日本av女優影片 av女優 av女優無碼影城 av女優 av女優 百分百成人圖片 百分百成人圖片 視訊情人高雄網 電話交友 影音電話交友 絕色影城 絕色影城 夜未眠成人影城 夜未眠成人影城 色咪咪影片網 色咪咪影片網 色咪咪影片網 色咪咪影片網 色咪咪影片網 免費色咪咪貼影片 免費色咪咪貼影片 色情遊戲 色情遊戲 色情遊戲 色情遊戲 影音視訊交友網

Anonymous said...

85cc免費影城 愛情公寓正妹牆川藏第一美女 成人影片 情色交友網 美女視訊 美女視訊 視訊情人高雄網 JP成人影城 383成人影城 aa片免費a片下載 a片線上看aa片免費看 ※a片線上試看※sex520免費影片※ aa片免費看 BT成人論壇 金瓶影片交流區 自拍美女聊天室 aa片免費a片下載 SEX520免費影片 免費a片 日本美女寫真集 sex520aa免費影片 sex520aa免費影片 BT成人網 Hotsee免費視訊交友 百分百貼影片區 SEX520免費影片 免費視訊聊天室 情人視訊高雄網 星光情色討論版 正妹牆 383成人影城 線上85cc免費影城 85cc免費影城 85cc免費影城 85cc免費影城 ※免費視訊聊天室※ ※免費視訊聊天室※ 免費視訊聊天室 85cc免費影片 85cc免費影片 080苗栗人聊天室 080苗栗人聊天室 080中部人聊天室 080中部人聊天室 免費a片下載 免費a片 AA片免費看 aa片免費看 aa片免費看 aa片免費看 aa片免費看 日本av女優影片 av女優 av女優無碼影城 av女優 av女優 百分百成人圖片 百分百成人圖片 視訊情人高雄網 電話交友 影音電話交友 絕色影城 絕色影城 夜未眠成人影城 夜未眠成人影城 色咪咪影片網 色咪咪影片網 色咪咪影片網 色咪咪影片網 色咪咪影片網 免費色咪咪貼影片 免費色咪咪貼影片 色情遊戲 色情遊戲 色情遊戲 色情遊戲 影音視訊交友網

Anonymous said...

85cc免費影城 愛情公寓正妹牆川藏第一美女 成人影片 情色交友網 美女視訊 美女視訊 視訊情人高雄網 JP成人影城 383成人影城 aa片免費a片下載 a片線上看aa片免費看 ※a片線上試看※sex520免費影片※ aa片免費看 BT成人論壇 金瓶影片交流區 自拍美女聊天室 aa片免費a片下載 SEX520免費影片 免費a片 日本美女寫真集 sex520aa免費影片 sex520aa免費影片 BT成人網 Hotsee免費視訊交友 百分百貼影片區 SEX520免費影片 免費視訊聊天室 情人視訊高雄網 星光情色討論版 正妹牆 383成人影城 線上85cc免費影城 85cc免費影城 85cc免費影城 85cc免費影城 ※免費視訊聊天室※ ※免費視訊聊天室※ 免費視訊聊天室 85cc免費影片 85cc免費影片 080苗栗人聊天室 080苗栗人聊天室 080中部人聊天室 080中部人聊天室 免費a片下載 免費a片 AA片免費看 aa片免費看 aa片免費看 aa片免費看 aa片免費看 日本av女優影片 av女優 av女優無碼影城 av女優 av女優 百分百成人圖片 百分百成人圖片 視訊情人高雄網 電話交友 影音電話交友 絕色影城 絕色影城 夜未眠成人影城 夜未眠成人影城 色咪咪影片網 色咪咪影片網 色咪咪影片網 色咪咪影片網 色咪咪影片網 免費色咪咪貼影片 免費色咪咪貼影片 色情遊戲 色情遊戲 色情遊戲 色情遊戲 影音視訊交友網

Anonymous said...

視訊交友網 080視訊聊天室 ※免費視訊聊天室※ ※免費視訊聊天室※ 視訊聊天室 成人影音視訊聊天室 ut影音視訊聊天室 ※免費視訊聊天室※ 視訊ukiss聊天室視訊ukiss聊天室 視訊交友90739 視訊交友90739 情人視訊網 168視訊美女 168視訊美女 168視訊美女 視訊美女館 視訊美女館 免費視訊美女網 小高聊天室 小高聊天室 aio交友聊天室 aio交友聊天室 交友聊天室 交友聊天室 線上a片 線上a片 線上a片 線上a片 線上a片 免費線上a片 免費線上a片 嘟嘟成人網站 成人漫畫 情色文學 嘟嘟成人網 成人貼圖區 情色文學成人小說 微風成人區 情色貼圖區 免費視訊聊天 免費成人圖片區 愛情公寓 愛情公寓聊天室 寄情築園小遊戲 免費aa片線上看 aa片免費看 情色SXE聊天室 SEX情色遊戲 色情A片 免費下載 av女優 俱樂部 情色論壇 辣妹視訊 情色貼圖網 免費色情 聊天室 情人視訊聊天室 免費a片成人影城 免費a片-aa片免費看 0204貼圖區 SEX情色 交友聊天-線上免費 女優天堂 成人交友網 成人情色貼圖區 18禁 -女優王國 080視訊美女聊天室 080視訊聊天室 視訊交友90739 免費a片 aio 視訊交友網 成人影城-免費a片※免費視訊聊天※85cc免費影片日本線上免費a片 免費色咪咪影片免費色咪咪影片aaa片免費看影片aaa片免費看成人影城情人視訊高雄網sex520免費影片080聊天室080聊天室aa的滿18歲影片免費av18禁影片免費av18禁影片免費av18禁影片aa的滿18歲影片聊天室ut愛情公寓尋夢園聊天室

Anonymous said...

免費 a 片
aaaaa片俱樂部影片
免費線上 aa 片試看85CC
aaaaa片俱樂部
av女優影片情色文學
亞洲禁果洪爺影城
日本av淫蕩人妻免費漫畫帝國
777美女dvd無碼av女優
視訊辣妹girl5320 貼片貼圖區
85cc免費影片辣妹自拍圖
本土自拍影片qq 美美色網漫畫
卡通aa片自拍走光貼圖
百分百成人圖片avdvd
視訊辣妹找援交
免費影片下載一葉情貼圖片區
情色網成人電影
論壇區
自拍偷拍情色無碼dvdav無碼
dodo豆豆聊天室
2sex999情人輔助品a片線上試看
成人影片下載免費線上a片
sex520
色情漫畫777美女dvdav
小護士免費 aa 片試看
網路自拍美女聊天室天堂
080聊天網桃園天堂
av免費情色影片無碼
新竹援交成人影片情色網
雪之深戀 080聊天網水之浪漫
sex888入口免費性影片觀賞
高中生援交偷拍自拍限制級色情 片
aa 片試看免費卡通
百分百成人情色圖片
sex888movie影城情色小說
a片天堂日本 avdvd 介紹免費觀賞
日本sex貼片網情色文學
百分百貼圖區亞洲avdvd
嘟嘟情人色網免費線上成人影片
倉井空免費影片彩虹頻道免費影片
sex520 net情趣 商品
aa影片下載城小魔女貼片區
av女優卡通aa片下載天堂
情色影片免費觀賞0204貼圖區
色妹妹免費情慾影片觀賞aa
sex888影片分享區高中生援交
aio交友愛情館成人圖片區
視訊聊天情色sex888 freebbs hk
a片免費觀賞sexy girls get fucked
免費 aa 片試看情色文學
av 女優 卡通美女短片免費試看
383成人視訊 美女
嘟嘟貼圖區av影片下載
卡通aa片hilive tv 免費電影天堂
免費線上avdvd觀賞卡通影片卡通aa片
34c無碼影片情色 網站
34c甜心寶貝貼片
sex520免費影片85cc
一夜情sex999免費影片
援交友留言桃園無碼a片
高雄援交av影片
34c小魔女免費影片
sex女優王國avdvd無碼
日本美女寫真貼圖片區
彩虹頻道免費影片卡通aa片
777美女dvd自拍影片
成人情色 視訊21sex
情人輔助品日本 avdvd 介紹免費觀賞
avsex無碼a片
av女優sex貼片
辣妹視訊自拍美女聊天室
視訊美女jp成人
6k情人網情色視訊
sex520影片免費觀賞
台灣kiss911h影片線上a片
嘟嘟線上免費a片觀看
素人自拍et免費影片下載
辣妹貼圖新竹援交
sexy girl比基尼美女
卡通aa片免費看
歐美模特兒寫真
a片18成人avooo,sex
月宮貼圖情趣 商品
援交女sex movie免費 a 片
aa片免費看影片色漫畫帝國
一葉情貼圖片區 av127
免費a片線上看,av無碼
同志色教館et免費影片下載
aa影片下載城
辣妹視訊微風成人區
一本道 a片 東京熱情色影片

Anonymous said...

成人視訊交友
視訊網路美女
免費視訊聊天
ut聊天室辣妹視訊
live173影音視訊聊天室
免費視訊聊天
一夜情人視訊
免費視訊聊天
免費視訊聊天
免費視訊聊天
免費視訊聊天
xxx383美女寫真
kk777視訊俱樂部
xxx383成人視訊
情色 視訊免費成人
xxx383
免費a片線上觀看s383視訊
xxxpanda
線上 aa 片試看,成人 視訊
xxxpanda com
xxx movie
一對多視訊,美女短片免費試看
免費a片卡通,免費成人片試看
xxx18
玩美女人影音秀
xxxholic次元魔女
xxxholic春夢記
xx18 net影片交流區
性愛,a漫,線上a片
xx插插排行榜
hi5 tv免費影片
xxxpanda com
免費成人影片sex女優
xvediox com
sex383線上娛樂場
aaa的滿18歲卡通影片
台灣美眉討論區
台灣無碼女優
免費a片卡通,travian tw4
sexy girl video movie
520sex
gogo2sex
aaaaa片俱樂部影片
xx18 net影片交流區
sex女優王國情色
sex情色
av969 免費短片
免費成人情色
ut視訊
168 視訊聊天
色美媚,洪爺的家
色美媚,洪爺的家
6k聊天網,搞笑影片,性愛,後宮
哈尼視訊,鹹濕視訊
土豆網韓劇播放
線上 aa 片試看嘟嘟,免費線上a電影
情色文學,情色視訊交友
微風論壇短片區
免費色咪咪影片網
av383,dvd,無碼影片
玩美女人,自拍
無碼卡通,性愛,聊天室
日本 a 片,無碼影片,美女,sexy,a片天堂
sex520貼片,日本av女優,色美眉,sex,成人
檳榔西施摸奶影片,免費A片
a片短片試看,av女優報報
免費 a片,sogo 色論壇
免費h影片,成人影片分享
電影,h片,卡提諾王國小說
UT影音視訊聊天室
色美眉部落格 2,視訊主播脫衣秀
比基尼美女的奶,玩美女人影音秀
比基尼美女的奶,玩美女人影音秀
免費影片觀賞,av博物館
免費影片觀賞,av博物館
av 女優,黑色會美眉
av 女優,黑色會美眉
成人影片,h片,無碼a片
吉澤明步
成人,UT視訊交友,視訊女郎,免費視訊秀,限制級
免費 aa 片試看,成人影片分享
無碼av女優, 色美眉部落格 2
無碼av女優, 色美眉部落格 2
遊戲天堂,免費av,美女自拍
倉井空免費影片,情趣 商品,視訊 美女
免費a片線上觀看,sex520貼片
辣妹脫衣麻將視訊聊天室
夢幻家族影音視訊聊天室
免費 a 長片線上看,黑澀會美眉無名,辣妹no3
080色情聊天室 080尋夢園
wii遊戲壓片,情色遊戲

Anonymous said...

85cc免費影城85cc免費影片免費 a 片台灣論壇免費影片線上免費a片觀看85cc免費影片線上觀賞a片免費看免費A片A片-sex52085cc免費影片免費卡通影片線上觀看小魔女免費影城免費看 aa的滿18歲影片免費a片卡通sex888影片分享區520sex貼片區aaaa彩虹頻道免費影片sex520免費影片後宮0204movie免費影片免費色咪咪影片網成人a影片論壇免費影片下載aaaaaa片俱樂部sex520免費影片sex888免費看影片馬子免費影片免費線上a片gogo2sexaaa片免費看短片免費 a 片aaa片免費看短片免費線上avdvd成人圖片區18成人avoooaaa的滿18歲卡通影片免費線上歐美A片觀看sexdiy影城plus論壇dudu sex免費影片85cc成人影城臺灣情色網線上免費a長片免費卡通影片線上觀看彩虹頻道免費影片洪爺影城浪漫月光論壇bbs x693 com sex888 sex383線上娛樂場85cc免費影片sex888 freebbs hksogo 成人論壇sex999日本美女寫真集日本 avdvd 介紹免費觀賞微風成人av論壇aaaa 片俱樂部免費影片下載a亞洲免費影片線上直播卡通美女a片免費試看免費成人視訊視訊情色遊戲援交av080影片sexdiy影城sex520免費影片sex888movie影城情色小說 杜蕾斯成人一本道 a片 東京熱情色影片本土辣妹34c影片直播吉澤明步sex888免費看影片論壇a 免費影片觀賞aa的滿18歲影片av080免費試看sex888 freebbs hk免費aa片試看免費影片觀賞av博物館aaa免費看影片亞洲禁果影城免費a片aaaaa片俱樂部影片5278論壇金瓶影片交流區383movie成人影城aio性愛dvd辣妹影片直播免費a片線上觀看,sex520貼片ut13077視訊聊天avdvd無碼情色電影日本 avdvd 介紹免費觀賞台南援交友留言hi5 tv免費影片1314視訊成人論壇成人免費視訊 完美女人hilive tv 免費電影34c蒼井空影片下載avdvdsex383線上娛樂場aio交友愛情館sex383線上娛樂場JP成人網免費視訊聊天室微風成人