Evolution vs ID vs Descartes: Part 3: SUM


If you haven't read part 1 and 2 here is what you need to know:

If there is a designer then evolution was part of the design. Therefore "ID" vs "Evolution" is a red-herring.

/endofstorysofar

Of course, the debate is one of those "science vs faith" issues. Please do not construe the above as statements about faith, or religion, they are not. The following toughts are though.

Personally, I think it is the wrong debate, the wrong issue. I find one can wonder at "the creation" without having to pick a fight with Science. In my case, I am in awe of the creation. Period. Thank you.

What bothers me is when people flaunt their religion in your face. By all means, practice if it makes you happy and you have decided to devote a part of your life to regligion. If that is your thing, then good for you! Keep it private.

I think faith and logic should operate in orthogonal and NON-EXCLUSIVE worlds. Therefore religion and science should as well. Science doesn't want to explain "God", it can't and doesn't concern itself with faith. That much has been admitted for a long time. Many scientists believe in "something" many are downright religious people. Science doesn't mean atheism. Science and religion should co-exist in separate dimensions, because their driving feelings, faith and logic, are separate and non-exclusive emotions.

In the case of "evolution", I think the fight is downright ignorant and misguided. One can observe evolution as fact and still marvel at the "creation" every day. I dont' need to agree with the creationists on WHO did it and HOW it was done. I don't care. I just care that it IS done. I don't need a codified religion to feel that kind of "faith".

When I was young, I thought Descartes had proven "existence". I didn't need to believe, it was proven. You probably know Descartes, he is famous for his "cogito ergo sum". "I think, therefore I am". He is also famous for being famous in the same town as my father, Tours France, but less so.

However, I think that the "I think" in the cogito, is a STATEMENT, A STATED and OBSERVED FACT, it is not a proof: in a word, it is a POSTULATE (admitted truth in your system). If you admit that "I think" then the "therefore" part of "therefore I am" becomes redundant. They are one and the same thing.

As soon as you state that something about YOU IS, your thought in the case of Rene Descartes, then you have essentially postulated yourself into existence. "Therefore I am" is a "slight of thought", a tautology really, no information is added.

It took me 20 years to come to grips with that statement though :) I thought it was proof of existence. It isn't, I was tricked by the therefore/ergo which made it sound like a proof. It is a postulate. The cogito is a postulate followed by a tautology.

But to me it can capture "faith".

The "SUM!", not as a following to "ergo sum" but as a standalone exclamation: SUM! is both a more intellectually honest version of the cogito and to me at least is a fact to wonder at. I can't get past it intellectually or even near it in abstraction. I postulate it, admit it and move on. That is my faith. I wonder at Creation. I don't need a religion, I don't need bombs or ceremonies. I just wonder that IT IS. The creation is here, it is here, isn't that cause enough for wonder? Aren't we lucky enough? Why pick a fight over it?

Radical creationists would be better advised to go about the business of worshiping their gods in PRIVATE and leave the minds of our boys and girls out of it. There is a place for worship and a place for learning, and then there are many places for making fools of yourselves.

If your teachings clash with facts, deal with your teachings not the other around. Revise your texts.

It is the wrong fight, one that characterizes its proponents as "ignorant bullies". They are transparent in their designs. If their "faith" was any real they would realize that "faith" is a universal feeling, shared and understood by many. A feeling that transcends any particular religion or codified expression.

Remember I love you,

marcf

Comments

Juha Lindfors said…
The marvel of the efficiency of nature's creation (it's efficient in finding solutions to undefined problems, it's far, far from being "perfect") comes from the apparent complexity and variance of solutions that appear too intricate to emerge out of statistical probablity of random noise (that's my take, anyway).

Complexity in the observed end result is easily interpreted as complex governing rules which by itself would, according to some, require intelligence. Yet there are various examples where it can be shown that a complex behavior emerges out of simple rules (cf. emergence). I find the chess analogy Richard Feynman uses in his book "The pleasure of finding things out" illustrating this very well.

When it comes to removing complexity from evolution (and therefore, the need for external intelligence), I've found the selfish gene theory adding a healthy dose of simplicity (of which I am a fan of ;-) to the governing rules, yet still maintaining consistency of the process of evolution at larger scale. A book that takes this idea even further with fascinating examples is Matt Ridley's "The origins of virtue" which builds on the theory of evolution of cooperation by Robert Axelrod which itself is an application of the iterated prisoner's dilemma (and here's where Nash pops up once again ;-).

Something to consider for your reading list, I hope :-)
adt43wt342 said…
hmmm, I am definitely going to check it out, thanks juha
adt43wt342 said…
Actually Juha, do you remember discussing the cogito at 7AM after a long night by the port in Palma de Mallorca? It was a fun night that I barely remember :).

I just remember you and Adrian, almost passed out and me rambling on about my gripes with the "cogito". I think it was you who called bullshit at some point :)

marcf
Juha Lindfors said…
Hah, fun memories from that night... ;-)

I remember nodding off on the bench at the port waiting for sunrise, can't say I recall much Descartes there but I'm sure it was a deep, insightful discussion... I remember waking up and crawling across the street for the breakfast buffet :-D
adt43wt342 said…
LOL,

Right! it was you that called bullshit and said "let's go for some bacon and eggs", now THAT was deep and insightful, the rest of drunken rambling :P

marcf
Anonymous said…
85cc免費影城85cc免費影片免費 a 片台灣論壇免費影片線上免費a片觀看85cc免費影片線上觀賞a片免費看免費A片A片-sex女優王國免費卡通影片線上觀看小魔女免費影城免費看 aa的滿18歲影片免費a片卡通sex888影片分享區520sex貼片區sex520免費影片免費色咪咪影片網免費影片下載aaaaaa片俱樂部成人a影片論壇aaa片免費看短片後宮0204movie免費影片gogo2sex馬子免費影片免費線上a片aaa片免費看短片sex888免費看影片免費 a 片aaa的滿18歲卡通影片免費線上avdvdaaaa彩虹頻道免費影片sexdiy影城aaaa 片俱樂部sex520免費影片85cc成人影城洪爺影城免費線上歐美A片觀看彩虹頻道免費影片免費卡通影片線上觀看臺灣情色網線上免費a長片浪漫月光論壇 sex383線上娛樂場dudu sex免費影片 杜蕾斯成人bbs x693 com sex888sogo 成人論壇plus論壇sex520免費影片sex999日本美女寫真集sex888 freebbs hk85cc免費影片微風成人av論壇亞洲免費影片線上直播日本 avdvd 介紹免費觀賞視訊情色遊戲sexdiy影城免費成人視訊一本道 a片 東京熱情色影片免費影片下載asex888免費看影片論壇sex888movie影城情色小說本土辣妹34c影片直播吉澤明步免費a片av080免費試看免費aa片試看sex888 freebbs hk卡通美女a片免費試看aa的滿18歲影片a 免費影片觀賞aaa免費看影片aaaaa片俱樂部影片5278論壇免費影片觀賞av博物館sex383線上娛樂場日本 avdvd 介紹免費觀賞avdvd無碼情色電影sexy girl video movie亞洲禁果影城卡通aa片免費看383movie成人影城ut13077視訊聊天aio性愛dvd辣妹影片直播金瓶影片交流區免費a片卡通hilive tv 免費電影彩虹頻道免費短片台南援交友留言彩虹頻道免費短片aio交友愛情館a 免費影片觀賞

Popular posts from this blog

$6.66B for BEA: Larry goes Shopping

Thug vs Thug: Porsche 1, Hedge Funds: 0

Quickies #3, protecting IP in OSS